The Embracing Only podcast

View Original

Strategies for Women to Thrive in Corporate Spaces

Kisha Wynter, leadership consultant, executive coach, and trailblazer in women's leadership strategy, shares her unique insights and experiences in investing in yourself and navigating corporate politics with confidence and integrity.

See this content in the original post

Listen to the episode or scroll down to read the blog post ↓

See this content in the original post

As the visionary founder and CEO of Wynter Rich Enterprises, Kisha has a rich track record of developing and training leaders in over 50 countries. Her firm is dedicated to guiding organizations and creating inclusive cultures where every individual can thrive regardless of their background. 

Kisha is the author of Your Power Unleashed, based on her company's proprietary framework, The Diva Method

In this blog post, we’re covering the following:

  1. Addressing Systemic Biases Within Organizations That Prevent Women from Getting Ahead

  2. Having the Courage to Leave a Toxic Workplace

  3. The Importance of Allies

  4. The Diva Method Leadership Framework

  5. Developing Leaders

  6. How to Go from Invisible to Credible at Work

Click here to listen on Apple Podcasts. While you're there, subscribe and leave us a rating and review if you enjoy the episodes.

See this content in the original post

1) Addressing Systemic Biases Within Organizations That Prevent Women from Getting Ahead

Kisha has a background in HR and shared that when she was working in a Fortune 500 company she was sick of always hearing the same feedback from senior leaders.

“One of the things I heard over and over again is that this woman has all the domain expertise, the technical expertise in our area, but she doesn't have executive presence, leadership presence. She's not owning the room. She's not being confident.” - Kisha Wynter

To address this, Kisha explains that systemic biases within organizations that prevent women from getting ahead need to be addressed but women also have to learn how to show up in their power and not experience backlash for doing so

This was the catalyst that pushed Kisha to leave corporate and develop The Diva Framework (which will be discussed further in this post).

“I saw too many people that were very qualified, very ready for the next level, getting passed over because they were not showing up in their power and/or the organization wasn't recognizing the talent that they bring.” - Kisha Wynter

However, not all HR leaders will recognize that an individual is being passed over because she is a woman and not because she is not competent.

“When you are too vocal, even as an HR person, as an employee, you experience backlash. And you could be putting your job on the line.” - Kisha Wynter

Kisha shared an experience of a promotion meeting she was a part of.

She called out when the leaders in the room were labeling certain traits that are praised in men as ‘too aggressive’ for women.

“The leaders in the room got upset. They did. But we pushed. And at the end of the day, we were able to walk out of that meeting with a promotion that we were proud of.” - Kisha Wynter

However, Kisha explains that the woman up for promotion in this situation was at a point where she cared less about the consequences of these actions. This is a privileged position to be in.

“The reality is you have to be courageous as a leader yourself and as a woman to call it out because the truth is you may face backlash by speaking up.” - Kisha Wynter

See this content in the original post

2) Having the Courage to Leave a Toxic Workplace

Kisha explains that speaking out about biases in the workplace requires courage and integrity.

“You asked me what made me leave corporate? It got to a place where I was experiencing so much physical stress and symptoms because of the injustice that I was seeing. And it was completely against my values.” - Kisha Wynter

Kisha started experiencing symptoms like digestive issues, heartburn, and high blood pressure

“If you are working in an environment where even if you're good, you got promoted and you're paid, but it's completely against your values and you're miserable, that's not wealth.” - Kisha Wynter

Kisha shares that she didn’t want to become a puppet of a broken system.

“I'm not going to be part of the system if this is the outcome. I'm not going to be your puppet. I'm going to walk out here because my name means something.” - Kisha Wynter

This is something that resonates deeply with Archita.

While working at a company that had a zero-tolerance bullying policy, Archita experienced workplace harassment, gaslighting, and bullying.

“I went through the right channels to report it. [...] And twice, ethics committee folks came back to me and were like, Achita, can you just let it go? Can you just deal with it?” - Archita Fritz

They did not understand the physical and mental toll this bullying was taking.

There was a dissonance between the ethics committee telling her to let it go and the message she was telling everyone else in her team which was to empower themselves.

“Here I was telling everyone, empower yourselves, speak up, we're here to support you, but I didn't have agency. It was in complete dissonance with me. I could have continued, [...] but it was in complete dissonance with my values.“ - Archita Fritz

However, Archita explains that she had the option to leave which is a privilege.

Olivia counters this point by explaining that everyone has options

“You may not like the option, but you have options.” - Olivia Cream

Don’t become comfortable in the chaos just because it is familiar. It will eat away at you. And while these changes may force you to do something you find uncomfortable, they will be worth it in the long run.

“That’s strategic agency.” - Archita Fritz

See this content in the original post

3) The Importance of Allies

When you are in a situation where you want to make a transformative change, it’s important that you have allies.

In the promotion meeting that Kisha shared, she explains that she had a white male as an ally because the organization was a “boy’s club”.

“They're not going to listen to me, but they're going to listen to this man. [...] It's knowing how to play politics.” - Kisha Wynter

Kisha explains that 50% of the room wouldn’t listen to her so this ally had to speak up as well because the leaders would listen to him.

“Because multiple of us did that, the leaders listened and the decisions changed. It cannot sit on the backs of just black women. Who's going to be the ally here to share the burden? I'm not about to share this burden by myself. It's not effective.” - Kisha Wynter 

You cannot self-appoint yourself as an ally, but once you have been appointed as one, recognize that your allyship cannot be surface-level

Archita recently reached out to her friend to connect her to someone who needed help. Her friend did not want to be the person to help.

“You're losing an opportunity to use your privilege to help someone with less privilege.” - Archita Fritz

Kisha explains that it goes back to courage.

“Women of color in general and women as well, we don't have a choice actually. Because if you're in a consistent situation where you're discredited, you're undermined, you have a lot of muscle and repetition built around advocating and speaking up. This is our story every day.” - Kisha Wynter

Kisha shares a quote that she heard in a presentation:

“If you are an ally and the stone that is thrown at me does not hit you, you're not standing close enough.” - Brian

Kisha explains that calling yourself an ally is like the cool thing to do but it is hard work. 

“You have to be ready for it and you have to be ready to put in the work and to build your courage muscle. And not everybody, as they say, is about that life.” - Kisha Wynter

See this content in the original post

4) The Diva Method Leadership Framework

Kisha shared her company’s proprietary framework, The Diva Method, with us.

She explains that there are two steps:

1. The Internal Work 

Kisha explains that when she thinks about people advancing professionally, we know that there is internal work that needs to be done. Work like overcoming self-doubt and limiting beliefs and unlearning the lies that you have come to believe about yourself.

“There's a lot of work that needs to be done to begin to undo all those beliefs and step into your own brilliance and begin to own it.” - Kisha Wynter

2. Navigating Organizational Politics

Once you build confidence, step into your power, and own your brilliance, Kisha explains that you still have to figure out how to navigate organizational politics and develop organizational savvy.

Kisha developed The Diva Method because so many people believe that just hard work is enough to succeed. 

“It may get you in the door, but it's not going to get you promoted necessarily.” - Kisha Wynter

D - Deliver

The D in diva stands for “deliver results”

“If you're not delivering results, I can't save you. I can't help you. I can't coach you. You should not be in my program.” - Kisha Wynter

I - Image

The I stands for “image” which is another word for brand.

“What are people saying about you when you're not in the room? What reputation goes before you?” - Kisha Wynter

Kisha explains that your brand is really important because that precedes you before any decision

V - Visibility

The V stands for “visibility”.

“Now that you're doing the hard work and you have a strong brand, who knows about you? Are you the best-kept secret in town?” - Kisha Wynter

In corporate, Kisha explains that often the person doing the work in the background is not the one getting the credit for it.

“Make sure that all your eggs are not in one basket in terms of your visibility strategy. That you're not only depending on your boss but you have a wide range of people that are going to help you get the visibility.” - Kisha Wynter

A - Advisory Board

The A stands for “building an advisory board” or your personal board of directors which includes mentors, sponsors, coaches, and connectors. 

Kisha shares that so many women hit the glass ceiling because they don't have the right advisory board around them. 

“You’ve got to go out and actually take agency and use your agency to go find those people.” - Kisha Wynter

Kisha tries to focus mainly on sponsors.

“Research talks about how people of color and women, in general, are over-mentored and under-sponsored.” - Kisha Wynter 

Kisha explains that when she was previously working in HR she was told to set up a mentoring program.

“I said, you can call it whatever you want, but anybody I choose as a leader to support these women, they're going to go in that room and say, hire this person. They're going to say, promote this person. So if you don't have the social capital and political capital to make a decision, you're not going to be on my mentoring committee.” - Kisha Wynter 

Archita explains that an ex-colleague messaged her to ask her to mentor someone on his team. She asked for more information about the situation.

“Ultimately it comes down to this individual didn't have the agency himself to do what he needed to do. And therefore this woman is stuck in the role that she's in.” - Archita Fritz

When leaders reach out to HR to say that someone on their team needs mentoring, HR needs to talk to that leader and understand what their agency is in the situation.

“That is the connective tissue that is causing these women on their teams not to get the visibility, the reputation, the sponsorship that they need.” - Archita Fritz

See this content in the original post

5) Developing Leaders

Companies tend to promote from within but at the same time, many managers don’t know how to develop their leaders.

Just because someone is an amazing individual contributor and is technically very solid, does not mean they are going to be a good leader.

“I'm not just talking about managers either. All the way up the chain, we are promoting people to directors, to senior directors, to VPs and they don't understand the difference in their responsibility to their people at all these different levels, nor do we as HR people appropriately prepare people to lead in these roles.” - Olivia Cream

We're not investing enough in training and leadership development for managers. 

Kisha explains that this is a systemic issue.

“The organization has to have a strategy in how you are going to develop your leaders and how you're going to support the women and the people of color and everybody in your organization so that you don't have a toxic workplace.” - Kisha Wynter

See this content in the original post

6) How to Go from Invisible to Credible at Work

In her book, Kisha talks about going from invisible to credible at work and she shares two things that are essential to this transformation.

1. Don’t Wait for an Organization to Invest in You, Invest in Yourself

At one point in her corporate career when she was struggling, Kisha realized that she did not personally have the tools to deal with everything she was experiencing.

Through a personal development workshop, she learned about coaching.

“After going through coaching myself for a year, I realized the transformational power of being coached and the strategies that can help you, which is different from therapy.” - Kisha Wynter

She emphasizes that you can't wait for the organization to invest in you. You’ve got to figure out how to invest in yourself.

She explains that people will spend thousands of dollars on an expensive handbag but won’t pay $500 for coaching for their career where they are spending the majority of their work hours.

How does that bag help you achieve your goals?

There are a lot of women who listen to the podcast who have achieved a lot of amazing things but are probably feeling unfulfilled in some way or navigating a transition.

“Because of their time, 15 years, 10 years, seven years in corporate, they assume that they know themselves. We only know the version of ourselves that was accepted in that space. [...] You don't truly know yourself until you reflect parts of yourself to someone else and they give you feedback.” - Archita Fritz

As a result of coaching, not only did Kisha build confidence which allowed her to build her business, but it also helped her to build her brand.

“I started to do things like speakers training. I joined an organization that helped me to develop my speaking skills.” - Kisha Wynter

This allowed her to present confidently at work events where executives were also presenting. She presented so well that people asked her how she did it.

“It wasn’t an accident. I invested in myself because I wasn't chosen to be invested in by you. But guess what? I get to pick me. You don't have to pick me, but I pick myself.” - Kisha Wynter

Kisha emphasizes that if you are not getting what you need from your organization, you need to access these resources on your own.

Kisha is talking about personal accountability and while you can address systemic issues, you also need to figure out what you are going to do for yourself.

“Decide that you are your best investment and invest in yourself and go advocate for yourself.” - Kisha Wynter

If your company has a program specifically to develop high-potential leaders, tell them you want to take part in it.

“If your company doesn't have something, go find one and ask them to invest. And even if they don't, you do it yourself, figure it out.” - Kisha Wynter 

You need to do the work and do it OUTSIDE of your company.

“You're building your own Archita Capital, Olivia Capital, Kisha Capital, irrespective of the brand that's on your business card.” - Archita Fritz

2. Stop Using Diminishing Language

Kisha explains that women are scared of being viewed as aggressive when they use powerful language. Whereas men are viewed as leaders when they use this language.

“We diminish our own selves. We diminish our language.” - Kisha Wynter

This causes women to not come across as people in authority or true experts. She emphasizes that we need to take diminishing language out of our vocabulary.

Kisha shares some examples of diminishing language:

  • “Maybe”

  • “If”

  • “Please”

  • “Sorry”

  • “I think”

  • “I believe”

  • “I don't want to bother you, but”

  • “If it's not too much to ask”

You can find a Diminishing Language Cheat Sheet on Kisha’s website.

Kisha shared one of her favorite expressions from Lisa Nichols:

“I like me and I choose me. So if you like me, that is icing on the cake.” -  Lisa Nichols

Olivia questions why we are afraid of being labeled as aggressive.

“There's different kinds of leadership, certainly. But depending on your own style, just because somebody calls you aggressive does not mean you should shrink from that. Straighten your aggressive crown and keep on strutting girl.” - Olivia Cream

There is so much fear around the word aggressive especially as black women.

“The reality is that there are a lot of people out there, a lot of men that are out there owning their voice and being assertive and it's very respected.” - Kisha Wynter

Kisha explains that people shy away from being assertive because of the implications of it and the potential backlash but she emphasizes that we have to push back against that system.

“I would argue the backlash is going to come whether you like it or not, so pick your backlash.” - Olivia Cream

If you enjoyed this conversation, here are a few more episodes you might like:


To hear the full conversation, scroll all the way up and tune into episode 80.

About The Hosts: Archita And Olivia

  • ARCHITA

Archita Sivakumar Fritz is the Host and Producer of the Embracing Only Podcast. Archita is a MedTech and Life Science Strategist. She is a LinkedIn Top Voice for her insights into product strategy and nonprofit management, and the creation of inclusive cultures that champion a 'speak up' philosophy.

Following a successful 19+ year corporate career she now helps C Suite across organizations as a Fractional Product Marketing Leader through her company Ready Set Bold.

She works with individuals with 10+ years of corporate experience to find new paths away from toxic or underappreciative environments, enabling both personal fulfillment and broader organizational impact.

→ Grab your FREE resource to build your career transition here: https://embracingonly.com/cubicle-escape-blueprint 

→ If you want to work with Archita you can reach out to her here: www.readysetb

→ Book her as a speaker, moderator, or coach for your next company event or workshop.

  • OLIVIA

Olivia Grant Cream is the host and producer of the Embracing Only podcast. Nothing makes her happier than providing a platform to women who are changing the world. 

Olivia is a proud US Veteran and HR Leader who is passionate about changing the face of corporate America by helping underrepresented people reclaim their power and live the life of their dreams. 

She is an advocate for transitioning military members seeking second careers in the corporate landscape. 

Olivia is a proud Jamaican and enjoys mentoring, coaching, classic cars, and nature. The way you tell your story online can make all the difference. 

→ You can work with Olivia here: www.oliviacre 

→ Book her as a keynote speaker or moderator for your next ERG or company event.