Meet Dr. Ashlesha Tawde, a veteran of the Indian Armed Forces. In this episode of The Nine Oh Six, Ashlesha reflects on her dual identity as a soldier and as a civilian, including planning her wedding while in a war-zone at the border of India and Pakistan. Hear from her as she shares the childhood experiences that shaped her desire to enter the Indian military. Ashlesha also reflects on the critical role that her support system - including her life partner - has played throughout her life, especially as she now raises her young daughter.

TRANSCRIPT:

[0:00]
Ashlesha: First, I’m a soldier, then I am an officer, then I am a doctor.

[0:05]
Archita: That was Major Dr. Ashlesha Tawde.

[0:10]
Meha: Welcome to The Nine Oh Six. I'm Meha Chiraya.

[0:14]
Archita: I am Archita Fritz.

[0:17]
Meha: We are your hosts for The Nine Oh Six - a podcast where we elevate the stories of extraordinary women in our communities.

[0:25]
Archita: Ashlesha Tawde is a major doctor in the Indian Armed Forces medical services. In this episode, she brings us into a world where she wears many different hats - that of an army doctor, fighting terrorism and insurgencies on the border of India and Pakistan. More recently, that of a community doctor serving poor communities in the western ghats of India. Today Ashlesha serves her community just outside of Mumbai, India. And for this episode, she called in from Mumbai, India, you will notice a difference in audio quality here.

[1:12]
Archita: Through the course of this episode, she introduces us to the little girl many years ago that was inspired by her great uncle who returned from World War II. Ashlesha she talks about the jawans, and how their resilience has inspired her. When she refers to the jawans in the episode she means soldiers of the Indian Armed Forces. And finally, she brings it full circle as she talks about the taboos associated with being a girl child in India. She challenges these stereotypes and talks about how she in her opinion, her parents were radical thinkers, when they allowed her to do whatever she wants to do, even though she was a girl growing up in India. She shares these stories as she continues to be a trailblazer, who is paving the way forward for many men and women looking to serve their country, and their local and global communities as she hopes to continue to do for the many years to come.

[2:17]
Meha: Hello Ashlesha! So glad you're joining us here today on The Nine Oh Six. I thought we'd start by hearing about some of your experiences in the Indian Army.

[2:27]
Ashlesha: Indian army is one of the largest armies of the world, and it is the largest voluntary army. In a unit, you have the commanding officer who's the head whole & soul of a unit. As a doctor, I am an advisor to the commanding officer. And also when I'm posted, Firstly, I'm a soldier, then I'm an army officer. And then I'm a doctor, and then whatever it takes.

[2:52]
Ashlesha: So I'm an advisor to the commanding officer regarding the health of the troops, looking after the physical, mental health as well as the sanitation, hygiene of the unit area. And whenever operations are launched, we are asked to reach the active area of operation because that's where the doctors are required the most. If there is an operation launched, we have to be right there from the line of fire.

[3:22]
Meha: So you're first a soldier than an officer then a doctor. What do you mean by that?

[3:28]
Ashlesha: When it comes to war. Firstly, I have to be knowing basics of fighting. That time I can't just raise my hands and say, Sorry, I'm a doctor, I can't hold a weapon. That, that cannot be done. I am a soldier and I'm I'm supposed to fight. Then there are operations. Behind the commanding officer, the second person is a doctor. So that is why we have to have the full training of any infantry soldier or an infantry officer. Physical fitness and weapon training and mental toughness of any soldier. Then it comes to being an officer which is there you are supposed to be making decisions, tough decisions at times. Then I am a doctor, of course, because that's my job.

[4:14]
Meha: So, I know you mentioned talking about operations. So, could you explain to us what an operation actually means and the preparation required for it.

[4:22]
Ashlesha: When I say operations, many times by operations, doctors mean surgery, but an army doctor by operation means an operation of different kind. So I was fortunate, because many times I was fortunate to be part of a few operations. I was in a unit which is specialized for counterinsurgency and counterterrorism operations. I had just applied for my leave to go home for my wedding. I was suddenly posted in this unit.

[4:53]
Ashlesha: Suddenly there was this intelligence, which came in and we had strong intel that there were three wanted terrorist who had entered the area. So, an operation was immediately launched. It is like you know a unit which is specialized for this, they are otherwise quite relaxed because we conserve energy. The boys always are conserving energy for such specialized operations. So, they are into all sports activities, extracurricular activities, they are singing and they are colorful people they are lovely to be with and fun lot of fun and joy in the units and the moment the operation was launched, the entire unit just transformed. Within minutes. They were in their camos, their faces camouflaged and they are loading their weapons and they're out there. I couldn't recognize.

[5:57]
Ashlesha: Everything changed in them as if they were different people all together. And but that was 10 days before my wedding and I was somehow excited because very few times you get to be a part of a live operation. Well, my wedding preparations was going back home in Mumbai - saris and matching jewelry and bangles and here I was cleaning my weapon my AK-47 and you know looking at my bulletproof jacket if it is right fit, and looking at my medical stocks while my mom, my mother-in-law, everybody is looking at wedding, dinner arrangements here. So what is the menu etc. And I'm looking at my ambulances, whether there are emergency kits ready.

[6:45]
Ashlesha: They were just so much in contrast, but it was going parallel. My mother-in-law would call me and tell me that your flowers and your jewelry is ready. It was so funny and here I would be ordering my boy, then once a bullet is fired, there is a lot of soot that comes out. And some of the older weapons if you do not clean the weapon well, it will block the barrel. So we call it pull-through. So I'm ordering my boy, you have to do this pulling-through very well so that there is no hampering of this barrel where I fire.

[7:24]
Ashlesha: Well that operation was a success. Of the three people we found one alive and two bodies were recovered and without any casualties. So the operation was a success. And the fellow officers, the commanding officer through me a bachelorette party, and then I somehow reached home for my wedding.

[7:48]
Meha: It sounds like you're you're almost leading a completely different life. Because, again, as traditional Indian wedding preparations take so much out of everyone in the whole family, especially the bride, like you said, especially your mom, mother-in-law, yet, you had to keep both lives separate. So how did you manage that?

[8:11]
Ashlesha: Once we step out of that land, it's something that is that just comes naturally, that when we are home, we just tend to compartmentalize. None of it is relatable here. It's not relevant here, the kind of life that we lead at the borders. So we just simply close that compartment. Although it's always there in subconscious, everything changes - your face to your body language to the way you think the way you sound. Everything changes when you're in uniform. It's the uniform that makes the difference. It brings out that command.

[8:50]
Meha: So you mentioned a lot of the training is physically and mentally tough. So was there a moment when you were in training that you thought oh my god, what am I doing here? And how did you get past that?

[9:02]
Ashlesha: Well, our training because I came from a purely civilian purely city background and mostly army is deployed in hilly areas of north and northeast in parts of India, which is all hilly all cold and pretty difficult. Before that I had not been to Kashmir part of India, where our training happens in Lucknow. One time we were camping and it poured like anything. We were all sitting with our samaan with our luggage floating. And well it was as bad as how it is supposed to be in field many times where you do not have any concrete shelters, our stuff was floating, uniforms were all drenched, we were just sitting there without food. That night we had really had a tough night. The next day nobody came to evacuate us then, although they were just a few kilometres away from our training center, yes, we really I really cursed that decision. Then that night was that's where we learned the camaraderie, sticking together and getting through. So that's where they break you and then remake you. You get past such experience and you become tougher. I feel yeah, what? This, this I've done.

[10:28]
Meha: Exactly. So was there a time then, at the border, right, when you were posted now and you're like, wow, I'm glad they, like you said they broke us and then we were remade.

[10:39]
Ashlesha: Well at the Border every day is tough. You have the newer challenges every day. You know, we have heaviest of breakfasts because you don't know when your next meal would be. You don't know whether all of us will be together by evening.

[10:57]
Meha: Ashlesha so actually, I was just looking at a statistic, that I saw that overall in the Indian Army, something like only 3% are women in the armed forces.

[11:05]
Ashlesha: There are more women yes, because we don't just look after the boys as the soldiers, but also their families, their parents, their wives, their kids. So for that particular purpose, we have more of lady doctors. In fact, armed forces, you have a permanent commission for lady doctors, right from the very beginning. The uniquenesses in our uniform as well. None of the other arms from Indian Army have sari, which is a traditional wear as a part of our uniform. The reason for that is actually when a lady officer who's sitting in peace area, and looking at the patients who are not jawan (jawan is our soldiers) but the families of them who come from dehat, come from village area. If they see a lady doctor sitting in pants, shirts, and you know those kinds of manly attire, they would never like to open up. That's how we have more of lady doctors. Also, it is believed that in high stress situations and places where they are away from their families for very long time they seek compassion and to a lady that comes naturally.

[12:25]
Ashlesha: In high pressure areas where I was posted counterinsurgency, counterterrorism areas. Stress is a major factor that we have to handle. Mental stress is one of the factors that takes a toll on your health. And as doctors, we have to also address that. And a lady officer, a lady doctor, I have to be bigger than this boy, but then he can open up. I have that compassion. So that's what they expect, a lady doctor to play a special role.

[12:58]
Meha: What was the hardest transition about transitioning back to civilian life?

[13:02]
Ashlesha: It's very difficult to unlearn army ways because it's not just a job, army is a lifestyle. And as I say, it breaks you and then remake you. Your personality changes in a certain way, which is very difficult to undo and for good reason. So, in civil life in India, you know, there is a lot of bureaucracy, and it's not standardized, really, in civil life. So I have to make my own methods, find ways to make them work. Also in army once you have an order, it's an order, and then it is executed. In civil, it's not my order, I mean, my way or highway and it's like I have to take all the ways and all the paths possible. So yes, that is the toughest transition I feel.

[13:56]
Meha: So yes, I'd actually love I'll just open it up to you, tell us in the army. What got you there?

[14:02]
Ashlesha: Actually, it's very interesting to, you know, share. Decision was not made overnight. In fact, going into Armed Forces is never an overnight decision and shouldn't be. So when I was a young girl, my grandmother used to tell me stories about her brother, elder brother who had fought in Second World War in Africa and how he used to come back, people would come to the house to just salute him, the kind of respect that he was given. And the way he moved and the way he carried conducted himself. It was all in her memory, it was all just full of glory and a lot of respect for him. Yes, so those stories along with she told me stories of heroes in of India.

[14:52]
Ashlesha: Then when I was in school, Kargil War happened to India and one of my seniors from my school he was at the border, he was fighting that time and we lost him then. Young captain, and we while we were probably 6th or 7th and that's, you know, a very influential age. So we lost him there and he came back covered in the national flag, and we all were there, I still remember those, those moments that we were there. So certain moments really, you know, are powerful to shape you as who you are, who you want to be.

[15:39]
Meha: Everyone we all growing up hear stories of heroes and national heroes. What influence did have on you that's different from people just listening to the story and understanding them. But it seemed like some stories got you fired up, give service to your country.

[15:54]
Ashlesha: As you said everybody hears stories of heroes, but then it's not just the story that you hear, it's also the environment that impacts you, as you are hearing these stories, so, some people just hear them and then it is not practiced around them and then it dies there. When my grandmother or my mother told me the story of Jhansi Ki Rani, it was also backed or you know, surrounded by an environment which was conducive to understand the story. So you just listen to the story and then it dies out if around you the environment is not conducive to live those qualities. Whereas in my case, when I listened to story of Jhansi Ki Rani, my grandmother also taught me or my mother also told me... she also made sure that I be brave. I be independent. I stand for my opinion, and the qualities that the story would want you to take. So if that happens, then the story is imbibed somewhere.

[17:12]
Meha: That's incredible. Thinking about how we want to raise our own daughters, telling them to be brave and be strong,

[17:19]
Ashlesha: Telling them to be brave and strong may not work as much as when, they see us being brave and strong. That's the only way I think to learn. Luckily, what happened was I was I've always been very close to my parents and the really, they were very supportive towards me making a decision as bold as joining the Indian Armed Forces. There are only 10% of the entire Armed Forces Medical Corps are women, so handful and those who are there. They also have a lot of Army background. I did not have that. Or they come from army families. So that they have support system and all that ready-made one. So I'm a first generation. Those things helped me my family, growing up, school experiences. That's what made me ultimately decide that I must follow my heart and join the Indian Army.

[18:19]
Meha: Ashlesha you mentioned a couple of words, your parents are supportive in making this bold decision. So can you talk more about if you reflect back on your life or childhood? How did you have this confidence to make such a bold decision?

[18:34]
Ashlesha: Because I don't have any siblings and the only daughter of my parents, I can tell you in Indian society, it's a big deal. There, girl child is generally looked down upon and people want a male child and in India, outside in outside India, having more children is common, but in India because of population etc. we do insist on small family norms. And that doesn't happen because many times the couples keep getting or the family keeps getting girl children. And until they get one male child, they keep attempting.

[19:16]
Ashlesha: So that is why I was very lucky that my parents right from the beginning had this thing. That girl or a boy that's equal for them. Being born to those kind of radical thinkers was then that's not my credit I'm just plain lucky there. But so later on also because I was a girl child, single child, people expected they always think Oh, she must be really pampered, and whereas my parents just threw me out there and you travel on your own, you make your own decisions, you make your choices. In fact, even choosing my life partner was my decision. That is a big deal in India, you are given a free hand in choosing your life partner. That's a big thing.

[19:56]
Meha: We've talked a lot about your early years, your childhood, how you were raised, I really wanted to ask you a little bit about the role that your life partner has played as a part of your support system.

[20:07]
Ashlesha: Aditya and I, we grew up together because the first time we met I was 16. The process of choosing our career paths has been together. That is how there is a lot of understanding between us, he knows that streak in me, adventurous by nature, and also instinctive. He was the one who said if you do not do what you your heart seeks, you will not be doing it the way you should be. So only go for that that you are convinced.

[20:43]
Ashlesha: That is how I could actually think of Army as my career. He was the one who stood by me and gave me courage. When I joined Indian army, he was really proud of me. I mean, when your partner is equally proud of you and he loves what you are, what you're doing, it is kind of satisfying and makes you deeply happy. And that makes you go for it.

[21:12]
Ashlesha: And we made a very tough decision to get married and stay in a long-distance marriage for quite some time. So that was not easy. There were times when my phone had used to have seven different networks where there was no Indian telephone network being captured - they were all Pakistani networks, because I was far away. And I couldn't log in to an internet was not available and no contact whatsoever. And for months together we were not in contact.

[21:47]
Ashlesha: I remember one of the units I was in. I was at the borders and there was there were circles made in unit area with chalk. So when I went there, I asked just out of curiousity, what these circles were. So they said if you stand in this particular circle you will get a little bit one antenna of your, this particular Indian network where you can stand in this circle and can make a phone call from your own phone. So yeah, we had a tough time but I remember there was one place, there one unit I was in my accommodation was in barracks, which was made in the mountain, bunker kind of, and because it's a bunker you don't get sunlight for years together, so right from when it is made. Somehow that room when I went, there were some rashes on my hands and feet and I wasn't sure what was happening. And then I when I looked closely, the carpets inside that bunker they were infested with fleas. You know, and then there was moisture and no sunlight. But that unit had internet connectivity somewhere so I contacted Aditya, I was sharing my experience with him. So Aditya I just told this to him. The next day he came up with the information that you just put some soda, there baking soda or if you have bleaching powder, just throw it. So he looked up and all that and what can be done because I didn't have a lot of internet connectivity, not very fast, and this would solve your problem, hopefully. It was very touching.

[23:29]
Meha: That's a great example. Great example of love early on in the relationship. Now that you're raising your daughter together, right, you have each other you have your family support system. Could you talk about how your support system today is helping you achieve your goals

[23:47]
Ashlesha: Well now I'm a mother of two and a half year old Anandita. As a working woman you have to be a superpower. I feel every woman has it, you just have to tap into it. Yes, you have to be lucky. In my case I I am lucky to have somebody like Aditya in my life as a life partner that that has and there is nothing like this is particularly this is what moms do and this is what dads are supposed to do. Whatever it takes, being a father and being part mother, that's what I've seen him doing. Even now when I'm going to the hospital, I have erratic hours and he's there. There is no way that she would miss me. And that is how I get to work, you know, and I get to do what I want here. It's not one man's job to raise a child.

[24:48]
Meha: Okay, so on that note, how do you Ashlesha, how do you define success today?

[24:55]
Ashlesha: Everybody's definition of success has to be different. It's not outcome of any competition with anyone else. It's how far you have reached in your life and the goals that you've set, how true you have remained, how true you have been to what goals you had thought of. And that I think is somewhere it defines success for you. Success for you as a person. And it is very, very personal to you. I mean, it can't be defined by any other outside parameters. It can't be materials, it can't be the number of cars that you have, or the biggest house and how much you earn. As long as you are, you're happy and you're satisfied with where you have reached with genuine effort, and in your life, the goal that you have set for yourself I think that is success.

[26:03]
Meha: And where, you're still early on relatively in your career, where do you hope to go from here?

[26:11]
Ashlesha: For me, my goal has always been to come to use of more people, as many people as I can help. Each step that I take every day that I wake up, I always pray to God, give me the strength, give me the capacity and ability and motive to come to use of more people, more people who need me.

[26:40]
Ashlesha: I think wherever that dream takes me, that's where I want to be.

[26:45]
Meha: So then last question Ashlesha, so we end our podcast on this question. What do you love about yourself?

[26:56]
Ashlesha: I have never shied away from deviating from an existing path. I have never looked back once I set myself on a path and I think I am ready to start again even if I fall down. So that I feel I like about myself.

[27:24]
Meha: Thank you so much Ashlesha for being our guest on The Nine Oh Six podcast.

[27:40]
Meha: Learn more about our podcast. Check us out at thenineohsix. com. The Nine Oh Six is produced by Meha and Archita. Subscribe to us on your favorite podcast platform to tune in and hear the stories that will elevate and inspire you.