Episode 26: Breaking stereotypes and leading with curiosity
Monique Ball continues to break societal stereotypes. Education empowered her from her first job in broadcasting to digital advertising, to time away to be a stay at home mom to two little girls and most recently a licensed real estate agent.
In this episode, she highlights how she decided at age nine that she was not going to be a 'stereotype' that society expected her to be and discusses how going to a historically black university gave her an opportunity to live four years as part of a majority, empowering her for the rest of her life as a minority.
She finally challenges us to be curious, as she believes curiosity drives connection.
TRANSCRIPT
Archita: [00:00:00]
Hello, Monique and welcome to The Nine Oh Six.
Monique: [00:00:03]
Thanks for having me.
Archita: [00:00:05]
Really excited to have you on here. The last time we saw each other was in Tel-Aviv two and a half years ago.
Monique: [00:00:13]
Yes. It feels like yesterday though. I feel like you're still one of my closest friends, even though we're so far away.
Archita: [00:00:20]
I know. I feel the same way, Monique. I recently saw that there was a quote that you posted and it said ignorance will be the destruction of man, not COVID-19. Tell me more about what you were thinking when you put that quote out there.
Monique: [00:00:37]
Around that time, there was a lot of false information in the media floating around. People were, you were hearing about all these cases of people dying. You weren't really getting factual information on how exactly people were dying.
So there was just all these misconceptions going around at the time, as well as the US president publicly saying that this is the Chinese disease. And so it was creating, just a lot of panic and I just felt let's just stick to the facts and not about the hearsay or stereotypes or flat out racism, in my opinion, coming from, the American president. And so I just felt you know what, it's not, COVID-19, that's killing people. It's the ignorance.
Archita: [00:01:26]
Thank you for sharing that. When you mentioned stereotypes, you mentioned the last time we spoke that, we cannot really work together as human beings if we become destructive to one another. What are some of the biggest stereotypes you have had to navigate in your life? And is there a story you'd like to share?
Monique: [00:01:44]
I'll start with just a couple of stereotypes. One being female, and being black, especially in corporate America. Prior to getting my real estate license and at one point becoming a full-time stay at home, mom, I would notice that all of the people in power were men and mainly white men. I was in digital advertising sales for over 10 years before I transitioned into real estate. And I just noticed, working for various networks, such as the weather channel, Turner Broadcasting, as well as a couple of other ad tech companies, all of the decision makers were white males. And I just felt like in many ways, culturally, within that work environment, is that we were invisible. Women, not only were women invisible, but especially black women. We were mainly at the lower end of the totem pole. There were hardly any women in power and if they were, there were women in power there weren't black women in power. So I didn't see anybody who looked like me in those higher positions. I didn't necessarily feel like I had a safe haven of executives or whoever that I could go to for career advice or advancement for that matter. So that's one stereotype, but another stereotype would be, just growing up in the environment in which I grew up as being, black female and poor, we were lower middle class in my family.
Also, there were a lot of children, I'm one of six children. And so there were just a lot of stereotypes from people in our neighborhood, people at church. On one particular time, I remember my mom and I went to the grocery store with my younger sister, who's 15 years younger than me. So I was 15 at the time.
She was about six months or, recently born, she was an infant. And we ran into one of my mom's old acquaintances who we hadn't seen in a while. I was holding my younger sister. And I remember the lady approaching us and saying to me, Oh, you had a baby, meaning me. And I said, no, this is my little sister.
And then my mom confirmed Oh yeah, I had a baby. This is not her baby. And then the lady said, Oh, how old are you now, Monique? And I said, I'm 15. And she goes shruggingly like you're old enough. Like basically assuming because of our situation, which she knew about that, I should be a teen parent.
Because we're lower middle class. My mom's a single parent and has multiple children. So in many ways she was trying to create this energy that, Oh, that would be the norm for you. And that was very hurtful at the time and that's something that stuck with me for many years. That's just like even the way the media portrays people who grow up in environments like me is if you're from urban areas, if you're in a single parent home with multiple children, that more than likely you're not going to amount to much. Unfortunately that's what the media portrays and a lot of people buy into those same misconceptions, unfortunately.
Archita: [00:04:59]
It is really unfortunate because it's that misinformation or those stereotypes are everywhere. And I think people don't choose to educate themselves. So it's easier to just read what's most accessible or just accept what's most accessible instead of really trying to understand when you think of these stereotypes that society put on you. So how did those stereotypes influence you to break out of those societal health stereotypes?
Monique: [00:05:30] For me, I just use it as motivation. I saw it as this is the fuel and part of my reason why I have to rise above the situation. I have to supersede whatever society, whatever judgments that society places on me and so for me, it was easy. I'm not saying the road in which to get there was easy, but as far as my attitude toward it, it was easy. It was like, look, I always knew I wasn't a stereotype, even at a young age, even when I didn't have the language to say, you're judging me. This is a stereotype. I had something within that was just like, I'm more than this. It doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks. I know my education is my ticket out of here. Just like it was for my mother. And another misconception is that children who grow up like me or in the environment in which I grew up in is that the parents must not be educated. But that's not true. My mom actually has two degrees. She has a bachelor's degree, and then she has her associate in nursing, and she has a bachelor's in business and associates in nursing. And she also graduated second in her class and was on a full scholarship for undergrad. And the stereotype is that people who are born into, lower middle-class environments come from parents who don't have education. That is absolutely not always the truth. So I broke that stereotype from being born. My mom already had her two degrees, so that was, something I crossed off the list. And then I also looked at that for myself as saying, Hey, my mom didn't make the best decisions later in her life, but she started off on the right path. And if I stay on that path and continue to make good choices, then I know that I can continue to break those stereotypes. And again, for me, it was my education. Moving away from home and separating myself from that environment. .
Archita: [00:07:28]
Tell me more about your education, you went to a Historically Black University. Help our listeners understand what is a Historically Black University and why did you choose to go to this university?
Monique: [00:07:41]
Yeah, so Historically Black Colleges and Universities are institutions that were found on the principles to help minorities, people of color, to have higher education. If you think about during the days of segregation and right after slavery, there was very little opportunities for blacks or any person of color. And they definitely weren't going to be accepted into predominantly white institutions. And so therefore with my school in particular, there were a couple of crusaders who happened to not be black actually, who first founded Clark College and then founded Atlanta University. And then in 1988, it became one school, it became Clark Atlanta, but it started off as a college.
And why I chose to go to an HBCU is when I was in high school, I went on a black college tour. So we specifically went around Atlanta, other parts of Georgia, and other cities in Alabama to visit some of these Historically Black Colleges and Universities. And the reason why I chose Clark is first visiting the school. I just felt at home. They had one of the best communication schools within the HBCU community. And that was really important to me because I knew that's what I wanted to major in.
Archita: [00:09:07]
Tell me more about the experience.
Monique: [00:09:08]
Yeah, it was great. So my philosophy is I have the rest of my life to be a minority. This is the one time in my life for four years where I get to be the majority. Where I can step into a classroom and I don't have to think in the back of my mind, Oh, am I sitting in this? Did the teacher have me sit here because I'm black? Or did she not call on me because I'm black? Are they not speaking to me because of the color of my skin? Are people intimidated by me because of the color of my skin? Or not being able to freely express myself because I don't know how I'm going to be accepted, whether it be in clothing, the way I choose to wear my hair, or even my views on race or anything, any topic for that matter. and so I just felt like I was fully embraced because everyone looked like me.
Now in the real world is that the way it is? Typically, no, you typically don't live and work and entertain around everybody who looks just like you. The world is a diverse place. And so with that said, this was an opportunity to build up my self-confidence and to fully explore being myself without feeling like there's this elephant in the room because of the color of my skin or even having those thoughts. It was an absolute great experience.
Archita: [00:10:29] You know Monique, I never thought of it that way. I never thought of how empowering it would be to be a part of something where you're the majority. So for the first 17 years of my life, I lived in India. So I looked like everybody else, but India is interesting in the sense that it's like many countries in a country almost. Because many hundreds and thousands of years ago, they have so many cultures come together from different beliefs. And I think those differences made me really experience diversity in a different way, but I felt comfortable voicing my opinion, being different.
But I, up until this point, I have never thought and since then, this is 18 years since, I have never had an experience where I've been a majority. I'm saying this ut for the first time out loud, I am so uncomfortable when I'm the majority.
Monique: [00:11:22]
Really.
Archita: [00:11:24]
I do not know why, I need to think about it.
Monique: [00:11:28]
That's something to ponder on for sure. I would say the only time I maybe feel uncomfortable when I'm the majority is if I have someone with me who is not. Say I have a white friend with me and I bring them to my church or something where it's pretty much all Black. And I'm worried about, are they comfortable? How is this making them feel? And so that may be the only time when I'm feeling discomfort around amongst my own people, so to speak. But if it's just me and it's my family and it's my husband and my children, and we're in an environment where everyone looks like us, I feel like I'm at home.
Archita: [00:12:09]
Do you think you would feel that way if you had not married a Black man?
Monique: [00:12:13]
No, I think I would have the same feelings as you to some extent, especially if my partner was of another race and we're at a family function or I'm bringing him somewhere where he's not the majority, or there's not a mixed crowd. So perhaps that's what you're feeling.
Archita: [00:12:31]
I think that's what it is. I just realizing this, as you said, that you've only felt uncomfortable being a majority when you are trying to make the minority feel comfortable. And I wonder if I translate that to the workplace when you were in broadcasting, how often did your colleagues want to feel comfortable? ,
Monique: [00:12:53]
I don't think they were even aware that I possibly could be uncomfortable. And I will tell you this for a fact, outside of living in Atlanta, living in Chicago, I was the only person of color in my department. The only person. And it was at times very uncomfortable. And there were many times where I would try not to think about it, but it seemed like I was the only one worried about that.
We can identify with certain stereotypes. We can identify with certain situations that happen as far as racism, like the George Floyd situation. I think that was a sore spot for every Black person. But again, that doesn't mean we're all the same. We're not a monolith, we're not all the same. I can't speak for every Black person. But I can, answer your questions to the best of my ability. That's uncomfortable too, when you feel like, Oh, you must know about when somebody assumes, about a certain subject or topic just based on the color of your skin. We're not all the same. We don't grow up the same. We don't even all speak the same language. When you think about it, the largest slave trade was in South America. So there's more Blacks in South America, as far as the Black diaspora than it is in the US and they don't speak English. So I'm just saying, culturally, language, how you grow up, even if we're all Americans, we didn't all grow up in the hood. Everybody's not poor, everybody doesn't love rap music or whatever, any other stereotypes could be concerning the Black community. So we can't all speak for each other.
Archita: [00:14:31]
Did you ever feel like there was a point in time or an experience where you felt like you were granted the benefit of the doubt in the corporate world because you would in a circumstance that others were not?
Monique: [00:14:44]
Absolutely not. No. And if that happened, it flew right past me. If anything, I felt like it was the opposite. I felt like I had to work twice as hard. I felt like I was constantly proving why I belonged there. Even if it wasn't like outspoken, you need to be this way or that way, but I would watch other people get a slap on the wrist for things that I would be fired for.
I would watch other people get the benefit of the doubt of just having a bad day. But if I walked in, and said, leave me the F alone, which I witnessed one of my white colleagues doing to another colleague, I would be reprimanded, probably on suspension, probably written up, put on a PIP, something like that. Or, oh, she's angry or perhaps I was just having a bad day. I'm not given those same benefits at all, definitely not.
Archita: [00:15:44]
We're learning still. When you think about this, just this concept of the fact that you've had to work twice as hard, you've navigated your career, from broadcasting, you decided to stay home with your two lovely little ladies and then get back in the workforce. Just as a mom who stepped away, how hard was it getting back into the workforce? And what are some of the things you had to unlearn or learn as you got back in?
Monique: [00:16:10]
Yeah, it's definitely difficult. Being in real estate as a licensed agent it's literally your own business. You're starting from scratch. Not only am I in a new city, but I'm also new to the industry, and literally have zero context. So starting from the bottom is absolutely where I've been and it's been a journey for sure. The difference between corporate America and this is the structure. You have to create structure for yourself. You have to be disciplined and you have to have that, go getter mentality because you're going to have highs and lows, highs, and lows. There's no such thing as an overnight success, like you really have to build and that's gonna take time.
Archita: [00:16:57]
Well I'm hoping that house you just listed and that got through contracting gets signed and you get your first house there and it's a done deal.
Monique: [00:17:07]
I look forward to getting my first sale and speaking it into existence, I know it will happen.
Archita: [00:17:11] Yes, put it out into the universe. So let's switch gears a little bit. When did you learn that the world is an unjust and unfair place?
Monique: [00:17:23]
Probably. I always like to say that I learned this from a personal level, not, socially or some stranger out in the world, but from my own household when I was about nine years old. So my mom's been married a few times. When I was nine years old, she was divorcing my stepdad, which was her second husband and I remember being distraught . Not because I thought that relationship was perfect but from a nine-year-old perspective, when you see two people fighting and then they say they're going to go their separate ways, you clearly understand that nothing good is coming from this. And so what ended up happening is we ended up losing our home at the time. And I remember going to my mom for comfort and understanding of that situation. And what I thought was going to be some sort of, loving response or some sort of physical, comfort. It didn't exist. Actually my mom lashed out on me and I don't remember exactly what she said, but something along the lines of stay in a child's place. You don't work. This is not your business. And I remember saying something about I just want to run away. And instead of her trying to console me and help me understand what was happening and why they were getting divorced, she was scolding me instead and basically said you can leave. And, she's talking to a nine year old, I'm nine at the time. And I remember all of my innocence just literally escaping my body from that point on, I felt you know how they say ignorance is bliss. I literally felt like I no longer was a child.
And literally after that point, our lives went from bad to worse the rest of my childhood. And so I think that's when I've first realized that nothing's guaranteed and so again, I said ignorance was bliss up into that point because I don't think that at that time, I saw my parents as being human. I think I looked at it them is , oh, they're here and I'm here. But I recognized then for some reason, even though I didn't have the language, is that parents are not perfect. Parents lie. Parents are not always the best. And it ended up being just a point of realization. So I made the connection after that and I start seeing patterns that I hadn't noticed before. And so that's why I say my life went downhill from there because there was a lot of emotional neglect as well as physical abuse. But I didn't understand the way that was impacting me until I was nine for some reason. Nine was just like this pivotal point in my life where I had this moment of clarity, where again, and I saw my mom for who she really was, and not who I like hope she would be or imagined the kind of parent she would be.
Archita: [00:20:34]
As you're dealing with these emotions yourself, because there's nobody else there to help walk you through it, how you stepped into that emotion and then used that as a way to keep moving forward and, find your independence, like way out of that environment.
Monique: [00:20:53]
Yeah it definitely helped me become the independent person and responsible person I am today. And I'm one of six children. I'm also the second to the oldest. So there's four other siblings younger than me, but not only that growing up, my mom took in five of my cousins. But yeah, so throughout my childhood, nine years old is when they start living with those two. So I think that was also a pivotal time. My mom was going through a divorce. Not only was she going through a divorce and we were losing our house, but the police come over with these little children who are my cousins who were being taken away from their mom. And say, look, if they can't stay here, you're listed as next of kin. If they can't stay here, then we have to ship them off to foster care. And so instead of my mom allowing them to be separated and put into foster care, she took them in and they lived with us for four years. But during that time, my mom was also having more children. So when I was nine, it was only three of us. Then the four cousins came to live with us and while they were living with us, my mom had three more children. So it was just chaotic. And so as a young nine-year-old, I had to step into adult responsibility of cooking, cleaning, bathing, washing clothes, laundry, the whole nine, getting the younger kids ready for school. Cause they were all younger than me except for one, which we were the same age. We're within like six months apart. She's six months older. So there were all these kids that had to be taken care of. And my mom is a single parent at this time, so she couldn't handle all the responsibility on her own. We moved, so many times and my mom was incredibly unstable, and she's trailing all these kids with her. And then by the time they left, my mom had already had more children. So it was like they were gone, but then they were replaced with my younger siblings. And so it just felt like there was this endless cycle of responsibility. And so on one hand I could say, Oh, this was tragic. It was incredibly, dysfunctional and in many ways it really legit was. But the upside to that is that it taught me a lot of responsibility. It taught me how to be independent. It taught me how to only rely on myself, because I could not rely on my parents emotionally for anything, not even to this day. And so I just always knew what not to do, even if I didn't have the blueprint of okay, I'm supposed to do this and this. I knew absolutely what I should not do. And I think that's what saved me in many ways. And that is also what motivated me to become the person that I am today.
Archita: [00:23:58]
When I met you in Tel-Aviv, I would not know the story. I would not know that, you went through so much pain, so much you had to learn as a little girl. Was there somebody in your life that inspired you, that was your constant?
Monique: [00:24:14]
It was definitely a lot of self motivation. I can't say that I had any one constant person or people in my life that were like cheering me on or motivating me to do well.
Archita: [00:24:26]
You always inspired me, but this whole conversation is like taking it to a whole new level. So in this current climate right of extreme anxiety for everybody around the world, frustration, exhaustion of this crazy news cycle, what makes you feel inspired?
Monique: [00:24:44]
I would say the people around me make me feel inspired. I have a great community of friends who are doing amazing things. A couple of my friends here are entrepreneurs. They have their own business and even with COVID, they've been able to endure and persevere. So I'm like, if they can do it, I know I can do it. I follow a couple of commentators who are former classmates of Mario Bakari Sellers. He's one of them, he's a commentator for a political commentator on CNN. He's also an attorney, influential. I also follow this guy on social media. His name is Shaun King. He's an activist. And so he's always creating awareness around police brutality and different injustices happening in the Black community. And so those people are very uplifting they're they keep me motivated and they continue to inspire me to just fight the good fight. Even if it's just a fight in my own community, in my own neighborhood, in my own environment, they're out there fighting for the world and we're all trying to do our part individually as well. And so that's what keeps me inspired and motivated is that, Black people in general, we've always had to endure. Since we were brought here from slavery, we've had to always keep that attitude of keeping on. Keep on, keeping on in spite of our hurdles. And so I just take on that same philosophy is just keep on keeping on no matter what.
Archita: [00:26:10]
Love it. So we have kids of our own now. You have two little girls, how do we shape our kids' worldview? And what do we do as parents? So how can we do better to help shape that worldview for our kids?
Monique: [00:26:25]
Just continuing to not only educate ourselves, but be willing to have the conversation with our kids. Like when certain questions come up. Right now, my daughters are too young to really understand what race is, what racism is or any of those things. But at some point in life, they're going to have their own experiences. And just being open to have the conversation and not shy away from certain topics. And to also, keep them in an environment of diversity. So they understand the differences between not only themselves, but the other people around them and to respect those differences and to value those differences. We can't live in a bubble. And that's my hope is to just always create an open communication and keeping them in environments where they understand the value of differences.
Archita: [00:27:15]
Yeah and I know that you really do understand the value of differences so much so that you started your travel Instagram account, right, when we were all traveling? And there was a specific purpose as to why you started that. And can you share more of why you did that? And, how that resonated with the communities you were hoping, to, engage.
Monique: [00:27:38]
What inspired me to start @whereintheglobeisMo, so follow me guys, is to not only create awareness of Oh, this place is like this and the food is like this and the culture is like this, but to also paint a picture of we're more alike than we are different. We met each other in Tel Aviv. And then we realized that we have so much more in common than we ever thought. And we come from two different worlds. And, just showing that, although the world can seem so different on the outside, once you start interacting with the people you realize that, we have more in common.
Archita: [00:28:17]
Absolutely. A question we ask all our guests is what do you love the most about yourself?
Monique: [00:28:23]
I love my curiosity. I am one of those people, always have been since a child, I don't make assumptions about who or what something is. I'll either ask that person directly a question if it's appropriate or I'll go do some research on my own. And I believe because of my curious spirit and genuine interest in people that I have this innate gift of connection. I can even say that was true with us. When we first met, I felt like we had this connection from the start. And my belief is that, all we really want deep down is, it's connection. Everyone wants to be seen, to be heard, and to be validated. And if we could all just try a little bit more to understand each other, to validate each other's opinions, to validate each other's differences, I think that the world would be a better place.
Archita: [00:29:16]
I love that you're embracing your spirit of curiosity, that's fabulous I have another question how do you define success, Monique?
Monique: [00:29:26]
The way I define success is small victories one day at a time. That's my philosophy. Sometimes for me, success is getting Emory prior to her going back to school, through virtual school, getting the laundry done, cooking dinner, and washing the dishes. And other days it's wow. I went out and did some showings. I, got a listing or what have you, something related to my business. And then other times, success for me is just self care. That taking a nap, is going to get a massage. I think a lot of times people have this unrealistic expectation of themselves and even others too. Oh, you have to make a million dollars, you have to be a CEO, you have to be high up in your career. And that's what defines success. But for me, it's the little things you do every single day. If the repetitive things you do every day is checking those small things off your to-do list and then moving on to the next thing the next day. So , that's the way I define success.
Archita: [00:30:28]
So is that a question you would ask yourself that I have not asked you?
Monique: [00:30:35]
Let me think about that. Actually, one thing I wanted to touch on that's incredibly important when you come from a family of dysfunction and trying to navigate through not only dysfunction, but also abuse. My mom was the physical abusive one. My dad was emotionally neglectful. My mom was both acutally. He didn't hug, kiss, he didn't show affection in any kind of way. And growing up, you need that. There's even some studies out there that say, if babies in an orphanage, aren't held, they aren't touched, there's no physical touch in some type of way, they could actually die. They could die from not being touched. So just imagine being a child, never being hugged, never being kissed, never being told I'm proud of you, you can do it, you're great. I never had anything positive. I know it's hard to believe, but literally my parents never told us they loved us. They never showed any sort of affection and they lived separately. They both had that philosophy. So there's trauma associated with that. So when you become an adult, not only do you need to go through therapy if you have come from a background that I have. Therapy, having a support system, and then also creating healthy boundaries around those people in your life that may have been abusive toward you. And sometimes that means having no contact and sometimes that means just dealing with them on the surface and then keeping your distance. And so for me, that's what it has been that, my father passed away this past February, unfortunately, and there was never any closure around that, but through therapy I've been able to heal. If you allow that toxic behavior to stay in your life and get close to you, it's going to pull you down. It's going to continue to pull you down no matter where you are in life.
I also had a couple of questions for you too. I wanted to ask, as far as the Black Lives Matter Movement, is going in Germany do you see a lot of people advocating for rights of minorities and your town and your city? So do you feel like what's happening in America has had an impact and kind of spilled over to Germany and your city in particular?
Archita: [00:32:57]
What was absolutely surprising is that it happened in Dusseldorf. I was not sure if people felt empowered enough to go out there and be who they are. And two, I didn't know if others would support them in being who they are. And it was overwhelming , absolutely overwhelming. I will say this in Europe, I'm really finding it hard to gain traction, to talk about it. Because just by pure representation, Europe is diverse. That doesn't mean we're inclusive. That doesn't mean we make people feel like they belong. And that is where I am so passionate about trying to change that. My part I'm playing right now, Monique, is trying to get people together to get uncomfortable . We need people to feel like they have an equal space and place over here, because here everything is so subtle that you don't even realize you're experiencing it. And I think that's our opportunity is for folks who have a voice, myself included, what can we do to, raise the voice of these communities?
Monique: [00:34:05]
Absolutely and I always like to say as well, is that the Black Lives Matter movement it's not a moment. It's supposed to shift change, it's supposed to shift the mindset. And I think a lot of people look at it as Oh, this is a moment. Oh, next year, we're not going to be talking about this. We checked it off the list. We're moving on but it has to be integrated into corporate America, into its policies. It has to be integrated into the government. It has to be integrated into the marginalized communities in the US as well as abroad. And I think the difference between the US and other countries is that, we've been doing this a lot longer. There's been activists from, the civil rights movement to Harriet Tubman. Those people have been advocating on minorities and people of color for decades. Whereas in other countries, it's Hey, we don't want to we don't want to highlight your blackness or your, skin color or whatever we want to say. We're all one people, but like you said, it's the biggest joke. Everybody knows they're not being treated equally. And everyone knows that racism exists. But the point is we're having the conversation. Some of us are really doing the work, including myself, and you're doing the best that you can as well. And we just have to keep on keeping on, like I said before and not let this just be a moment .
Archita: [00:35:29]
Monique, thank you so much for joining us on The Nine Oh Six. It's been such a pleasure to have you and connect you again on, on all these different levels.
Monique: [00:35:41]
Absolutely. Thank you for having me. This truly has been empowering for me to have my voice be heard and I look forward to, continuing the conversation and doing the work.